The latest comments from and about Nice Guys...
From: "aj apelian"
Subject: General Comments on The Nice Guys
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 08:13:31 -0400
Before I say anything, I really hate putting subject lines in. Also, I am one of those males. You know with the penis and everything.
Now, I just discovered your site a few days ago, and have been meaning to write an e-mail to you with my thoughts, particularly on the "Nice Guys" portion, but I am ridiculously anal with my writing. Seriously, I spend way too much time figuring out what I am going to put in things as paltry as an e-mail. But, being a screenwriting major, I guess that comes with the territory. The whole insecurity with written word can get to be a tad bit of an annoyance, though.
(See how I dropped my lucrative major into conversation? I must be interesting!)
Anywho, I just want to say that you don't know what you're talking about! Nice guys are just misunderstood! Girls are the dumb! Other stupid things with exclamation points to prove I am right and you are wrong!
Now, I know the internet doesn't convey sarcasm, but that was sarcastic (and this sentence was a tad bit redundant). Also, it was probably, the most proficient email you have gotten on the subject. Seriously, nothing gives me more laughs than your reader mail.
(This is the point where I should ask what e-mail you thought was the worst you've ever gotten. Just to get a snarky "this one" response.)
I just wanted to thank you for even having this site. I have been viewing the nice guys' woes and troubles first hand for years now, as some of my friends fall into that trapping, and it's just hilarious. Though, I love it when they refer to themselves as "hopeless romantics,"
and have failed to see anyone in the viewer mail refer to themselves a such. It's kind of a bummer.
I once fell under the trappings of the "nice guy" back in high school, wondering why girls didn't like me, etc. Then I actually started, y'know TALKING to them, instead of leaving love letters in the locker and spending the entire day wondering what they'd say. I was pathetic. Imagine every nice guy stereotype, and that'd have been me. Thing is, I took it a step further and dated anyone who would say yes. And I mean ANYONE. The more co-dependent or "damaged" and I was there. There is no way to really portray the shame I still feel about that. It was god awful, and I do wish I'd have seen your site then. It would have saved me the hassle of figuring things out for myself.
Then, age 18 hit, college came, and I got out of the stupid high school mentality that the "nice" girls were unobtainable, and stopped worshipping at the altar of vagina.
I think that may be the primary problem with all the nice guys. They don't know how to mature. Though, I shouldn't throw "mature" around too lightly, because I still watch freaking cartoons and own Pee Wee's Playhouse on DVD. They simply live the high school caste system until the day they either wake up, or find someone just like them. Or find someone that settles for them.
Though, the best thing about getting out of those trapping was the fact that I realized, I really don't like "nice girls." "Damaged chicks" are indeed, not sexy. I like you Heartless Bitches. The cut of your jib is just exquisite.
Glancing through, I thought I'd help shatter a few myths that really bothered me, first of which being the "short guy can't get the womens" one. I swear, that's the pinnacle of insecurity. I am only 5'5" 1/2 inches tall. And yes, I add that half in just to sound a little taller. I think it's the most inane bullshit I've ever had the displeasure of reading over. Now, I may be the minority, because I actually, y'know, EXUDE CONFIDENCE, but I've never witnessed this first hand. It just irks me that people with other obvious deficiencies blame the fact that they are vertically challenged for the lack of things like, oh, say, a personality.
Also, what's the deal with all nice guys putting gorgeous into their defiinition of what they want in a girl? I mean, there's nothing wrong with wanting an aesthetically pleasing partner, but usually these "gorgeous" girls the "nice guy" pines over is the vapid, cheerleader type, at least from my observations. Now, these cheerleader types are notoriously shallow. So, it would be safe to assume that the nice guy's looks may not be up to par. I'm not saying that anything here is absolute, but it just seems like a logical conclusion, and since most "nice guys" are self-deluded about plenty of other things, couldn't looks be on that list too? I mean, I know I have a bit of a weight problem I am working on. But I at least acknowledge it. Being short and pudgy - not a good combo.
Another disturbing trend is the nice guys pining over women they barely even know. This makes the border between "nice guys" and "creepy stalkers" very thin. I know I used to be guilty of it, and it just seems ridiculous. I mean, you try to convince yourself that "she's the one," yet you know next to nothing about her, save for the fact that her hair looks mighty pretty.
I really hate the "assholes get all the girls" mentality. It's like nice guys don't ever see a middle ground. They are pretty much fundamentalists, seeing everything in black and white, with asshole and nice guy as substitutes.
I mean, from sitting it out and wallowing in self-pity, all they have is casual observations of the guys who actually get the girls. So, if they aren't writing sonnets for their beloved every other day, they are indeed "assholes." Get over yourselves. Self confidence isn't arrogance. Playfully picking on friends is not being an outright jerkoff. You know, you don't have to hold open every door to every cross the paths of a girl. It's courteous, yes. But it doesn't make you any better than anyone else just because you are going out of your way to be nice. Being a doormat is not sexy.
Which brings me to my biggest beef: since when is being nice a substitute for things like conversation skills, common interests, and confidence? Did I miss a memo somewhere? I don't care how nice you are, if that's all there is to you, then what would be the point of dating you? Priests are nice. Girls aren't hopping on their bones every 3 seconds. (Insert Catholic Priest touching Altar boys jokes here.) Just because you don't have a spine, it doesn't mean that the woes of love are playing cruel tricks on you.
But there was an ulterior motive in this email. I have one friend, a self-percieved "nice guy," who I think you'd enjoy hearing about. And I just love telling this story. It was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak, for me. After this moment, I'd realized what I was doing and broke free.
So, I have this friend, let's just call him Biff, because I like Back to the Future. Now, Biff is your stereotypical nice guy. 21 year old virgin always asking his female friends to set him up with chicks and whining about how no girls find him attractive. He pines for girls he can't have. Complains about the latest misadventure in the field of females ad nauseam. Now thing thing about Biff is he's one of those "hopeless romantics" types. But, he tries to cover it up with saying ridiculously offensive shit for laughs. (This is why he's my friend. I love offensive/dark humor). Then, whenever girls are present, he talks about how he's really looking for love, no one gives him a chance, etc.
One day, he starts wearing a wedding band on a chain around his neck. I could care less about this. I'm too busy making rape jokes with him. Then some girls come by, and he tells the most ridiculous and outright terrible thing ever. To girls he doesn't even know. He says he wears the ring around his neck so it is close to his heart. In the hopes that one day he'll find the girl who touches his heart, and she'll get that ring.
At this point, I start laughing hysterically. I mean, that's one of the top ten creepiest ice breaking lines I have heard in a while. Then, I stopped to think about things and realized I was probably just as bad, though not as flamboyant about it.
And, I've never been the same since.
Well, I believe this is long winded enough, so I shall end it now. I don't have a closing line. Deal with it.
"Those who restrain desire, do so because theirs is weak enough to be restrained; and the restrainer or reason usurps its place & governs the unwilling."
-- William Blake
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2006 20:15 -0400
COMMENTS: This is to the nice guys blog.... I finally realized one thing. Im not a nice guy. Im an idiot. Ive read alot of the pathetic excuses the loosers on here have left and come to one conclusion. They are the assholes and dont even know it.
Ive looked at some of the other websites about "why nice guys finish last" and this site has the explanations that finally makes sense. Its not the women out there its my own creepy self.
So, what am i going to do about it? Stop being a pathetic looser
and get off my ass and do somthing about it. I now know im an asshole, looser, and pathetic creep. I however, do not beleive this to be fate.
Thanks for your bashing and helping me to realize that its not really the girls its me.
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 08:34 -0400
COMMENTS: hello oh wonderous goddessess!
like to say that its very clever this site - some of it is rhetorical drivel - but most is a fine evolution of real people saying what they want. ive learned a quite a few nuggets from it - thanks.
(if one were to make an equivalent site for men you could directly rip off everything and just change the genders in the writing 'selfish bastards international' - it would look a bit funny in parts - and still aid the collective consciousness)
i particularly liked the section on NICE GUYS (yes i have been accused of being too 'nice', currently working on how not to be an indifferent asshole) - i agree - NICE (in context) is a thing to avoid - in my experience its the 'nicest' people who are the most manipulative, taxing and boring. being 'nice' can damage all involved... big lesson. thanks for writing it in such articulation and all.
i want to ask a serious question... who in gods name invented the SNAG? i mean really who though THAT was a good idea? most men didn't when it came out -- so who supported it? did women invent SNAGs'? did men invent SNAGs? is it a part of alien warfare? did people initially like the concept and found out later that it produced armies of wetbags? did they then conveniently detach themselves from it when they found out it didnt work? ("nah - i never voted for SNAG") again, who is responsible for this archetype? its an article i would LOVE to read - THE ORIGIN OF SNAG! (subtitled - BEWARE OF POLITICAL CORRECTNESS!)
puns aside, i really would love to see an article tracing the origins of SNAGism.
love your collective works.
ps... your 'add comment buttons dont work -- so im in the hate male section.
From: "James Hall"
Subject: interesting site...
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 21:11:59 +0000
Yup.. unfortunately... I am a nice guy.
Didn't realize just how *much* of a nice guy I was til I read your site.
In it's most basic form, nice guys just don't know how to relate to a woman as a person. This, in many cases, goes all the way back to childhood when they're taught that females are the creators of life and nearly a mystical force of nature. (How, exactly do you relate to a force of nature? Generally they're gazed at in wonder and awe... ermm.. before diving into a storm shelter. ;) )
But, this nearly ingrained attitude does lead to quite alot of the behavior listed in the 'nice guy' section.
I don't see a section on 'sweet' guys, (been referred to quite often as a 'nice and sweet guy') what does *that* wind up translating into in the HBI lexicon?
From: "Natalia Cichocki"
Subject: COMMENTS: Nice guy section
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 02:29:26 -0600
I was so relieved to see your nice guys section today, because for a moment I thought that I was the only one who noticed all the bull shit behind the phrase "Nice Guy". I was going through a few bulletins today and saw some lame post about nice guys. It was saying things like "to every guy who knows which girl he wants" or "to every guy that gives flowers and a card when she is sick" and so on. I've seen this bulletin before and today it set me off because I realized this was not the first time I have seen this. I couldn't possibly understand why this person had posted this, why was he seeking acknowledgement so much? Why does he need some kind of gratification for being a nice guy? There are hundreds of men and women alike who are good people that aren't acknowledged everyday but you don't see them throwing pity partys for themselves! People who seek acknowledgment for being nice don't sound like very good people to me. Plus, since when is babying a girl around like she's a five year old child considered being nice? Anyway, I can go on about this topic forever. I decided to go on your site afterwards because I haven't been on it for quite some time and was happy to see I'm not the only one who's not dense enough to fall for the whole "nice guy" ordeal. That made me feel a lot better. I definitly love the site.
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 10:06:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Logan Hoskins
Subject: Comments: Thank You!!!!!
To whom it may concern,
Thank You so much for your website! Your nice guys
section has opened my eyes! I am a self professed
nice guy, and your articles helped me to realize that
I AM AN IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!
I realized that indeed I do
not like myself and there are definitely some changes
that I need to make in the relationships department.
So I guess what I am trying to say is thank you for
being a Heartless Bitch, and helping a sappy dumb ass
"nice guy" like me!
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:12:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: jim johnson
Subject: COMMENTS for the NICE GUYS FINISH LAST SECTION
I just want to say that Heartless Bitches site rules and I think that it
is like a wake up call for all the guys out and girls. I really like
this site but you should have more pictures of yourselves on here to let
people know that your just regular paople, maybe you could wear bathing
suits or something, I love your site and all you have to say, but I dont
understand this NICE GUYs section because shouldn't girls like nice
guys??? Whats the big deal, Why cant a guy be nice to a girl?? I don't
understand why all girls want is some guy thats mean to them and hurts
their feelings, so I dont understand why you have to promote that on
your site, I guess its ok, your just expressing your opinions and
everyone is entitled to that in this country, Im a really nice guy, and
Im not mean to girls and girls still like me, Like for instance today I
was at this place at the mall, and there were girls everywhere and they
were all hot as hell wearing low cut skirts and shirts and boobage and
skin was everywhere I had the biggest you know what below the belt, I
wont say because I have way too much class, so I walk up to this one
broad and I tell her that its raining outside and that she should get an
unbrella and I have one for her in my pants if you know what I mean, she
smiled and walked away, she smiled but she walked away I dont understand
because I was just trying to be nice to her, I mean she should have just
asked me out instead of walking away, I dont see what the big deal was,
I was just being a nice guy to her, But I dont know what her problem was
anyway that happens alot, I dont understand, I guess that is what I get
for being the NICE GUY, Im sure you have guys that are nice to you that
hit on you and you just ignore them, I guess thats why you call
yourselves heartless bitches. But I guess that makes sense because only
a heartless bitch could be mean to such a nice guy like me. But so I
tried to be mean to girls like the way you and so many women apparently
want and then nothing happened cause if I saw a hot broad at the store
or somewhere, I wouldnt even look at her and if I did anything I would
just cough at her or scratch my nuts or burp, that s my definition of
being rude or mean cause I have so much class and I never do that But it
was just for my experiment, and the girl would not even care so I
figured that you have to talk to them in order to get them to go out on
dates, but I was wondering about all this and I came to the conclusion
but It didn't make any sense cause I dont want to ignore women like what
you mean by being mean. But I read on here that some guy was just being
nice and you were all mean to him cause he was being nice to girls, but
I dont understand why you cant just go out with nice guys instead of
mean guys all the time, cause I like girls but not bitches if you know
hwat I mean and im sure god want s us all to be good to eachother and
chicks even too. so I guess I want to say is God bless america for
broads being able to express themselves just as well as guys mean or
nice guys but I like the website you make a lot of good points cause im
so smart and have so much class for you and the other heartless bitches
but i think if you like guys you should like nice guys cause not all
guys are mean, and im not mean no way im really nice like theres this
bodacious hottie i work with the biggest jugs ive ever seen and im such
a nice guy cause i always ask how shes doing and only stare at her boobs
and butt when shes not even looking, but what people dont know wont hurt
them right, but im really smart so i know how to be nice to women cause
women are great but i dont get how you can choose a mean guy over a nice
one, like but but you know what i mean and im sure everyone else does
cause its not that complicated but you dont have to put down nice guys
just because there so nice and womens liberatio or something is going on
cause women have more powers than men do in the workplace cause they get
what they want cause women are good and nice guys oh yeah just forget
about them who cares about the nice guy trying to be nice to girls than
guys that just ignore them and you all promote it on this website
your the ones that arent very nice if you ask me
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 20:43:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: COMMENTS: A "nice" girl expresses distate for her male counterparts
Hey, Heartless Bitches. I have to tell you how much you made me smile.
I once questioned why my love life hasn't been as dandy as I'd hoped. I always fall for the really under-appreciated, funny, and sweet guys, yet they often invariably turn out to be incredibly dense in matters of women, or are closet assholes. It was confounding, and I couldn't quite fit all the pieces together... until I found your excellent commentary.
I've now realized the irony of my romantic memories. I am, unfortunately, attracted to those self-proclaimed “nice guys”. Every time I've shown interest in one, he couldn't appreciate that someone he didn't worship- God forbid, horror of horrors- actually found him likable. They thought that I'd “get in the way” of whatever apathetic girl they were hitting on at the moment, or that they couldn't see me “like that”, conveniently forgetting that this is exactly the kind of thing women they're interested in say about them. All the while, they whined about how lonely they were and how girls didn't find them appealing. Pardon me for thinking that's hypocritical.
No men have ever showed interest in me at all, actually. But... I'm nice. Hell, it might even be accurate to describe me as the female counterpart of the dreaded “nice” guy.
As a “nice girl”, do I blame my lucklessness with men on how I'm “too nice, woe”? Do I say that men are the problem, because they only like “bitchy bimbos”? Hell no.
I am responsible for my own character flaws, thanks. I can, without self-pity or shame, tell you the real reason why I don't have a boyfriend: I'm unconfident and passive. I'm working on that, though, in my quest to empower myself. Recently, I practically demanded the guy I had my eye on to take me to lunch.
The attraction I felt towards him, however, is no more. Why? He mentioned something about being a “nice guy” and how women “always choose jerks over me”, and my interest level took a nose dive.
Don't ever change,
From: "JOHN FREEMAN"
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 22:57:49 +0000
Ok, fair cop heartless bitches, I'm 'nice' in the clingy whiny sense; no
one has ever kicked me in the head hard enough to knock it out my arse
until i ran across your website. But you've missed a point: Grown up,
psychologically stable, intelligent women, want grown up psychologically
stable, intelligent men, who are kind without being whiny or clingy,
right? How many people qualify as being any of that?
Lots of women DO
want abusive dickheads, or spineless guys they can use, because they're
spineless or dickheads themselves and visa versa.
Yeah I've got
problems, lots of problems, BUT SO HAS JUST ABOUT EVERYONE.
And you know what? Nice might mean spineless and whinging to a heartless bitch, but
it ought to mean kind giving and brave.
So don't slag me off for wanting
to be a nice guy, but fell free to slag me off for forgetting what a
nice guy should be.
Not that I'm gonna bother to pay attention if you
do, cos you're a bunch of heartless bitches, and I'm a nice guy with his
head up his arse.