Comments on Nice Guys articles
Updated: Sept 16, 2002
From: Phil Hall firstname.lastname@example.org
Subject: RE: "nice guys" article
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:05:18 -0500
How interesting that once a person writes in with any form of critisizm you
immediately go on the attack. Claiming *we* (or *I*, in this case) need therapy.
[How interesting that a criticism of your criticism is called an
"attack." If you're going to project, why don't you play a movie that we
And then you wonder why you get attacked (called "dyke," etc.)
[Where's this coming from?]
[If you're curious, I'm wondering if that machine that decompresses time
to create energy is just bullshit. The last thing I concern myself with
is being called a dyke.]
Amazing. You truly are one fucked up woman.
[Must be a double feature at the "I know you are, but what am I" theater.]
I can only hope you understand that your letter is so filled with incorrect
material that I had to laugh. Here's only ONE of the mistakes I'll point
out: "(hence the reason that porn is so prevalent with men)."
A 1989 study, the last one done on the matter,
[There hasn't been a study on porn consumption since 1989? Yeah. Right.]
cited that 80% of all porn rented was done so at the behest of WOMEN. Go look it up. Since you're so
smart I'm sure you'll have to trouble going to the local library and finding
[Of course, he doesn't cite references (these guys aren't above making this shit up),
but we will. -- According to this study, which is quite generous, women only comprise
40% of the porn industry comsumers. A far cry from 80%, and still less
[Maybe he should read "True Porn Clerk Stories."
I'll guess that the "white thumbprints" on the tapes don't belong to women.]
>>Out of kindness I won't ridicule you more. Suffice to say you are wrong and
>>know nothing. Perhaps you should go back to school, or complete college, or
>>maybe even stick your head outside once and a while. I can only imagine that
>>the reasoning behind your drivel is some deep-seated misandrist problems of
[He just can't let well enough alone.]
>>No, Natalie, you're the one who's "fucked up," not me, and not most men.
[Who brought "most men" into this. We are talking about a specific subset of men. I guess your math is off, too. You're expanding your percentages way out of proportion.]
>>Sadly, the therapy needed is where you are, not here.
[I guess you'll just be one of those who dies instead of learning.]
>>Have a nice life...or whatever you call it.
[Stay miserable and whine about being lonely.]
From: "Jamie Richards" (email@example.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002
Subject: nice guys in black
I have a lot of friends who wear black, listen to New Wave or death metal, use lots of eyeliner, and identify themselves as "goths." They parade their fashion sense as a badge of open-mindedness and iconoclasm. However, I have seen more narrowminded, sexist crap out of this "subculture" than I encountered during four years of college with Young Republican fratboys.
I'm on a "goth" message board where the "nice guy" rant gets posted (as if it's a completely new, original epiphany) about once every two weeks. Recently, on an unrelatated thread, a woman posted that she wasn't interested in sex at the moment. She was tired of emotionally abusive relationships and was having a good time just developing friendships with the guys around her. In response to this totally sane and innocent post, some jackoff in black posts a 3-screen-long rant about how she'll screw all of these friendly, nice guys over as soon as some asshole comes along to sweep her off her feet, because "that's what you women always do. Wait and see."
And this guy (not to mention all the other pancake-makeup-wearing stealth chauvinists around him) has the gall to claim that he's a feminist!! "I believe the color of your skin and the shape of your sexual organs do not matter. We are all equal. If you can't compete with me on a level footing, then you just can't compete." This quote is from a post in which he claims that women should not be police officers because they are too small to effectively disarm large perpetrators.... PLEASE! Give me a friggin BREAK. This kind of sanctimonious, pseudo-equality bullshit is exactly what extremists like Rush Limbaugh use to keep women "in their place"!
I love my friends, and I have met some very strong women and some very smart men in this community. But every time I discover another one of these "nice guys in black," I feel as though I've stepped on a slug. Will somebody please tell them that the clothes you wear don't make you a free thinker? It's the words in your head, not the ones on your t-shirt, that matter.
From: "Marty" (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Subject: Thanks for the "Nice Guys" article
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002
An excellent read, and really hit home for me, I've considered myself (and
have been called several times) a "nice guy". I've always kind of felt there
was something fucked up about my brand of nice, when it came to the woman I
go for, but couldn't ever put my finger on it. That "Nice Guys" article hit
the nail right on the head (Ouch, that hurts). I just wish some heartless
bitch would've slapped some sense into me a long time ago, since they
didn't, THANKS, keep up the good work
Subject: blah blah beet on the "Nice Guys" thing
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002
I just read the post on this URL
(http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/shotinfoot.shtml), and I
don't believe that guy was real. You totally had constructed this character
out of articles/rants from your site, and decided to script an encounter
with the stereotype.
Anyway, kudos on that one; my girlfriend and I were laughing our asses off.
That shit was rediculous. It's as if your site's "bitchiness" about "nice
guys" finally embodied itself into one, and it came back with "veiled,
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002
I was appalled at the viciousness perceived on your website. I was ready to write in with a complaint to your management.
Then I clicked on your nice guy link and began to read the comments from other viewers and, by gum, they are dead on.
Being a recovering nice guy myself I expected to be berated by articles bashing men in general. However, nice guys can be assholes too. In fact, more often than not they are bigger assholes than jerks. This is because they as so engrained in bitterness about not getting any that they start to hate everything.
The "girls don't like nice guys" argument is bull. Girls like nice guys just fine. The difference is most nice guys are sappy nice and gay and are pushovers. Who wants a boneless, spineless twerp they can push around. I know I certainly wouldn't. Girls need guys that will tell them know. Guys need girls that will do the same thing. Constant agreement is the loneliest feeling in the world. You don't have a partner, you have a lackey. And what kind of relationship is that.
Plus, jerk comments can be funny. The proverbial nice guy doesn't overstep his bounds so he is never funny or witty or anything so not to make anyone mad. They don't believe people will like them whoever they are. The conformist approach is cute for a couple days, but after then it becomes old, tired, and boring.
I'm not advocating being an asshole. I'm advocating speaking your mind. Kindness is key. No one can get through a relationship without kindness. But niceness is a facade for cowardice. No guy is all nice or all ass. People that are all nice are fooling themselves because they think it will attract people.
It doesn't work. The only thing that will work is to be yourself. Crack a joke now and them. Enjoy life. I'm not saying suppress the nice urge. I'm saying don't force it out.