JadeSyren (our Ruthless, Heartless BitchBouncer), Responds to yet another Nice Guy...
Dear Ms. Jade Syren:
I like your website.
I find the vast majority of your analysis
insightful, witty, and correct.
I do, however, take issue with your
definition of "Nice Guy." You said, "My definition of a genuinely nice
guy is one who will treat everyone as an equal, and who DOESN'T EXPECT
to get anything because of his nice behavior."
First of all, it is illogical to "treat everyone as an equal" because
everyone is NOT equal. Judgment is how we discriminate between various
choices. If we never judged one potential friend/mate better than
another, then we would foolishly waste our time with all sorts of
unsavory characters just to avoid judging them or treating them
This idea is implicitly accepted by you in your comment,
"There are a lot of women like me, too, but we stay away from guys like
you." This idea that "everyone is created equal" is a fiction contrived
by western, classical liberal (Locke, Paine, Jefferson) thought, and is
anathema to tradition and common sense (the irony of Paine's title
aside). Our Master Kong (the literal translation of Kong Fu Zi or
"Confucius" in the Latin) said it best in Book 16 of his Analects:
"Those who are born with the possession of knowledge are the highest
class of men. Those who learn, and so readily get possession of
knowledge, are the next. Those who are dull and stupid, and yet compass
the learning, are another class next to these. As to those who are dull
and stupid and yet do not learn; -- they are the lowest of the people."
"The superior man has nine things which are subjects with him of
thoughtful consideration. In regard to the use of his eyes, he is
anxious to see clearly. In regard to the use of his ears, he is anxious
to hear distinctly. In regard to his countenance, he is anxious that it
should be benign. In regard to his demeanor, he is anxious that it
should be respectful. In regard to his speech, he is anxious that it
should be sincere. In regard to his doing of business, he is anxious
that it should be reverently careful. In regard to what he doubts about,
he is anxious to question others. When he is angry, he thinks of the
difficulties his anger may involve him in. When he sees gain to be got,
he thinks of righteousness."
With regard to your second point, namely, "a genuinely nice guy is one
who...DOESN'T EXPECT to get anything because of his nice behavior," I
must again disagree. Altruism is all fine and dandy, but when you keep
doing nice things and never expect to get anything in return, it can
make you into more a chump than a nice guy. A painful example of what
this kind of continuous selflessness can get you may be found here:
http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/womensuck/Endgame.htm I would be
interested to know your thoughts on this issue.
You probably are curious as to how I would define a "Nice Guy." Well,
I'm going to cheat a little and adapt my definition from NiceGuy's
website (http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/womensuck/Me.htm). It's a bit
lengthy, but I'm a big fan of wholism (looking at the big picture).
So, to summarize, a 'Nice Guy' is a guy who:
• thinks of and treats a woman as an equal partner
• does nice things for people without expecting anything directly in
• does not continue to do nice things for people who take advantage of
him and don't reciprocate (That would make him a chump.)
• generally treats all people with respect and kindness
• values truth and loyalty, avoids lying and betrayal
• rejects greed as a motivating factor in his life
• has a fair amount of self-respect and self-confidence
• has a good level of emotional maturity, i.e. manages his anxiety
without reacting to it, never lets it consume his life-proactive in his
approach to self-improvement
• knows when to take responsibility for his own failings...and when to
blame others (balance is the key-a problem is rarely all any one
• will listen, communicate, and be a 'good friend' without expecting sex
• expects that once she trusts him, a good female friend will give him a
chance at a romantic relationship without irrational fears of it
"ruining the friendship"
These are just my initial thoughts. I am open to your suggestions and
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003
From: Chris Edwards <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: Do you really need another compliment? Do I care?
The entire section on "nice-guys" put a big smile
on my face and reinforced a lot of things that I've
just recently come to terms with, only in different
words. A lot of "nice-guys" would do well to read and
think on this stuff. It's even possible to find your
way in this world while retaining much of the essence
of the "nice-guy", sans the emphasis on physical
affection. I do not consider the last hour of my
... and in the "bitter bottom of the barrel" looney bin:
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003
Subject: Male Flame form :
COMMENTS: Thank you for your website. It is further confirmation of the
general inaneness of women and why they should not be allowed free time
to develop websites and express their views. I want to quickly comment
on the articles relating to misogyny on your website. The "nice guy"
theory you are puporting is only men that can not get a date believe
that women want guys who treat them badly. The idea is that "nice guys"
are insecure and weak, and they blame women for their inability to
garner respect. But the truth is that men who have a lot of success with
women and have many girlfriends will tell you the same thing about
women. It is because they treat the women like crap that they are
successful. They have only accepted this and play the game that women
require in order to get what they desire. In fact, the "nice guys"
resent the women because they need to be treated with contempt, not
because of a misplaced contempt that the men feel for themselves. Thank
you again for your website and keep up the work. You are doing a service
to misogynysts around the world.