And Still more comments from and about Nice Guys...
Subject: Male Flame form : Frederick
COMMENTS: Just a comment on the Nice Guys We Can Do Without article. In
paragraph two the author implied that women dont want to be best friends
with their male partner as this is too suffocating or clingy. I dont
understand, this seems to go against everything else that you were
saying about women being people too. That is, being just like men and
therefore capable of a what I might call a "full" and loving
relationship involving, yes, being friends first and lovers, second.
Besides most women I know have the opposite problem of their guy never
wanting to spend any time with them except for the obligatory bumping of
uglies in the sack every now and again. Wouldn't a man that wants to be
good friends somewhat refreshing? Isnt that what it's all about? While
sex is more of a, admitttedly pleasant, hormonal distraction?
If I have failed to criticise or mention anything else you can take it as read that I like it, generally agree it, insert sycophantic comments here etc. Thanks.
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003
Subject: Nice guy philosophy
I do somewhat agree with your philosophy on why guys consider themselves
"nice" and then blame women for not liking nice guys.
This is true for a
portion, but definetly not most.
It's actually the same thing happening
when women say "men only objectify women's bodies and don't look at
personality", when the women are just merely lacking the goodlooking
Now on to the much larger problem...This problem has to do with
the way women think, and probably will never change...It's how women
assume things about guys. Most women will always try to instantly sum up
guys they might be interested in. It's no lie, a few good, honest, happy
women tell me this...
The problem here is most of women's instincts are
actually wrong, but they still follow them...
The reason for this is
because women in general are very intuitive and lack the ability to
think clearly, so they end up following their "intuition". Women always
rely on their emotional intuition...Most women "just can't think", thus
their ability to determine if a mate is good for her is lacking compared
to the men's...
For instance, when a man is being nice to a woman, she
might think he's spineless, unadventurous, but actually he might her
That man might have always been told to be nice to women
throughout his life, so he's nice to her, and then he loses her only
because of her faulty intuition(thinking hes spineless,etc).
problem is many women think certain men are spineless, unmysterious,
when actually they aren't.
Theres actually not as many spineless,
unadventurous men out there as you think.
That guy you think is
spineless,unmysterious might actually be one of the top dirt bikers in
the world, the next Bob dylan, the next einstein.
His friends might know
him as the best football player theyve seen, but unfortunately, because
of women's faulty intuiton, shes thinks hes just another common
You see, the problem is in women's inability to think clearly and
get to know someone before she makes a decision on whether shes
compatible with him. All this is directed mainly at the younger
women(19-28) of course.
From: "Guinastasia" firstname.lastname@example.org
Subject: Nice Guy article NAILS it!
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003
I just wanted to send a comment to the "Nice Guy" rants. In my opinion,
your article totally said everything I've ever thought about the "Nice
Guy." I knew one-he was a friend from work until he turned stalker on
me. (Thankfully, it was stopped before it started and he moved away!).
He was a "nice guy" who was a passive-aggressive, manipulative doormat
with a hair-trigger temper to boot.
If someone is truly "nice", he won't need to constantly advertise that fact-it will be obvious. I don't want someone to put me on a pedestal as a princess-I want someone who will see me as I am-warts and all-and love me anyways. Being nice doesn't mean not having a spine-I find people who stand up for what's right and what they believe in and won't take shit from the assholes as "nice".
So here's my advice, gals-if a guy starts complaining about how women don't want him because he's too "nice"-run for the hills!
From: "Alan M Rogers" email@example.com
Subject: Nice guys finish last...
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003
I was reading the section on ‘Nice Guys’ on your website, and, to my surprise, I found myself nodding my head at a lot of what was being said. I’ve always considered myself a ‘nice guy’. I like to think of myself a quiet person, and I do a lot of listening. I open doors for women, I will pay for them on a date – not because ‘I’m the guy’, but because I feel those kinds of behaviors are ways I can show a woman I am attracted to her without slapping her ass or staring at her tits all night.
If a woman tells me those kinds of behaviors are offensive or they bother her, I stop - at least, I’d like to think I would. I haven’t been told that yet.
I am also a geek among geeks; hence, I spend a great deal of time around a lot of ‘nice guys’, and I have listened to (and participated in) more than my share of ‘nice guys finish last’ conversations. But in all of those conversations, I never once understood (and many times argued the point) how any person whining about how they couldn’t attract someone, for whatever reason, served any purpose other than to chase any and all potential relationships away. After all, it’s no fun to sit there and listen to someone bitch and moan about how horrible their life is and how no woman would or could ever pay attention to them – when, of course, they are most often bitching to a woman.
At least, in my experience.
Oddly enough, I’m a nice guy who has had quite a few rather successful long-term relationships that I am happy to say began on the basis that the girl wanted to date a ‘nice guy’ instead of a ‘bad boy’. None of these women were submissive, scared little girls looking for protection or damsels in distress needing a knight in shining armor to ride to their rescue. Each of them was an intelligent, thoughtful, insightful and even-tempered person who I was happy to be with.
I also don’t understand how a guy can be a ‘nice guy’ if all he does is want to be with a girl - what’s the point in that? Why spend all your time trying to validate being ‘nice’ by having some chick on your arm when, in reality, you can be doing a whole shitload of other things with your life. I’m a nice guy, and I have had several stretches in my life where I couldn’t have gotten a date if my life depended on it. Yet, I was able to function in life, enjoy my life, and even by happy, despite the noted lack of female companionship. The real ‘nice guys’ don’t want to be with a girl that doesn’t want to be with them, and won’t torture and torment her by trying to convince her that he’s wonderful because he’s ‘nice’.
A real nice guy doesn’t have to convince a woman of anything - and has nothing to fear if a woman doesn’t want to be with him.
~ alan m rogers
From: "hkjh ljlkj" firstname.lastname@example.org
Subject: Reformed Loser
Date: Wed, 07 May 2003
*Stands up, looks at all the people with name-tags*
Hi, my name is Thomas. I'm 21 from Dublin, and I... I was a Nice Guy.
It's true, I was one of those misguided idiots who followed my intended
around like a puppy, yearning simple recognition, living for the
occasional word of praise. I'd spend my time away from her wallowing in
self-pity at the same time loathing those fortunate enough to be graced
by her presence. Whiling away the hours alone thinking of what could be,
I would email myself poetry and then delete it later out of
Thank Christ I eventually dug myself out of that hole, realized how
ridiculous I had become and began my long journey on the road to
becoming a reasonably well-balanced individual. If only I had been
smacked around the head and shown your site earlier, I might have been
able to lead a normal life a bit sooner. Some people really need to be
saved from themselves and if I recognize the symptoms of Nice Guy
syndrome in anyone , they'll get a swift kick up the ass and the address
to the site.
I'll make sure to point my current girlfriend (one of the FEW women I
know with more than a shred of self-confidence) in the direction of
heartless-bitches.com, she'll get as much of a kick out of it as I did.
Keep up the good bitching.